Curse

Carlintos · Sep 05, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I've got some ideas and remark of the game that I must have to tell you.

First of all, Farming.
When I had some free time then I went to UW to farm some ecto, I was
rich, I was happy.
Bought minipets, my favorites.
Now, the farm is nerfed and when I have 30-60 minutes to play I choose
another game or help rookies in missions. I'm not so happy.

I have no
money, so I can't buy GWEN minipet.

I checked the prices on Guru, and
the prices on ebay! (I swear that I NEVER EVER bought gold on ebay, just
checked the prices some time) Before the farming nerf, the gold was
cheaper than now. Now a little bit more expensive but the business is
going on ebay. And I guess there are people who buyes on ebay.

My idea is: you sell the money in your online store. I see you got pvp
packages and char slots. Introduce the money buying. If I need 100K I'll
pay you 5 or x dollars and I am happy. What is the problem with these?
Crashes out the market, the prices?
I guess not.
Just some rich people or that guys who want some pets or another stuff
they can buy it legaly. Not need to farm for hours or going to the dark
side and buying money on ebay. Maybe the chinese farming are decreasing.
In my opinion if I need a GWEN minipet and haven't got money i have 3
ways.
Farming hours or days, I wont buy the pet, or buy money on ebay.
BUT if you sells me money in your online store, 500k for x dollars? Who
cares. I'll buy with my VISA and I'm happy again.
You got some more money with these transactions and I guess these micro
transaction are the future. Some of my colleagues sharing my idea (there
are WoW players

)

Guild Wars Teams answer:

"Hello,

Thank you for taking the time out to write us with your suggestions. We
would ask that you please share your idea on one of our various fansite
forums: http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/ as members of our
team read these forums daily, and putting the ideas out there for others
to comment on allows us to judge feedback on a greater scale. We hope
this helps!

Regards,

The Guild Wars Team "

What's your opinion about this? Is it a good idea or not?

the Puppeteer · Sep 05, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

no - just no

milan · Sep 05, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

no - just no

As the man above me said.

Stolen Souls · Sep 05, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

hmm....let me think about this one...........*thinking*................no...

Yawgmoth · Sep 05, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Let this thread just die or better be closed fast. Such horrible ideas shoudn't see the light of the day.

/NOT SIGNED mods close please

Faer · Sep 05, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

/NOT SIGNED mods close please

I think I'll leave this one open.

Just for you.

tenshi_strife · Sep 05, 2007, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

I think I'll leave this one open.

Just for you.

thanks i love threads like this, OMFGNOOBGGFUX i mean you can see where hes coming from even though its a bad idea but yet you get flame after flame. but meh /notsigned

Engel the Fallen · Sep 05, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Threads like this make me laugh, as there are books about the economics of online gaming, and pretty much it will ALWAYS exist, yet the companies spend all this time fighting off the gold traders and not fixing the issue at the core. Either no exclusive high end content, or sell the gold themselves. God, in terms of man hours saved and cost / reward benefits of hunting bots would see the logical answer. But no instead they will change entire systems in the game to fight off the macro runners, which does nothing but cause virtual inflation, cut down supply and increase cost of online gold. Which leaves the macro runners in the same place they started, as if demand stays constant, and supply is limited, they can no deal with farming for half the stuff, and still make the same they did as before. Who loses, the players.

Mike_version2 · Sep 05, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

no, no and no
/notsigned

dragonofinfinity · Sep 05, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

why does anyone need so much in game gold?
im a casual, i do a little farming but i struggle to make any major amounts, i dont farm major places as im not that farr through with any of my chars (the most i get seams to be form quests that give cash rewards).

/notsigned.
game gold in the store is a very bad idea.
so they nerfed farming, big deal, go find something else to do like dancing on the steps of kamadan wearing horns.

SotiCoto · Sep 05, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Lol fail @ economics.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 05, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Gold Farmers - at least they're taking actual ingame gold and selling it.

Buying at store - would be creating new gold that did NOT drop during farming but was rather created by a dev/admin command, possibly at unstable speeds. The game economy would probably crash.

/NOT SIGNED

SotiCoto · Sep 05, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Not only that but I'm sure Gaile has said already that the team cannot "make gold" in game.

Epinephrine · Sep 05, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I have to clarify a few things:

Gaile has said the team can't, but she means that their avatars can't - they don't have that power in game. The team could easily change things so that they could.

Second - the bit about the economy and how the gold that the farmers sell isn't just "created" - yes it is. There is no grand reserve of gold, as soon as an instance is made, the gold is simply created to fill it. It's not drawing on virtual ore, it's not limited by the extent of dwarven drilling - more players = more gold, in the sense that every instance adds more.

Farming of gold by rooms full of poorly paid foreign workers is a reality. That gold is simply created at the expense of their labour, and is then sold at a higher price, netting a profit for the companies. Sure, ANet catches some, but they keep selling, keep buying new accounts and continue to provide the gold. Banning them doesn't stop it, it's too profitable to simply buy more accounts and keep farming. After all, the cost of a single account can easily be made up with a few gold sales, and the labour is cheap.

Gold trading has nothing to do with "gold" and everything to do with time - you aren't really buying gold, you are buying time spent gathering gold, and as long as there is anything in game that is acquired by spending time, it can be traded in. Sure, gold is convenient, but if it were devalued by ANet selling gold it would simply shift to be materials, or ecto, or something - whatever the artificial currency became.

Explore the idea - what would be the effect of ANet selling gold?

Well, a few things could happen.
1) Nothing much. Things might continue roughly as before. ANet may price higher than people want, or simply that the number of people motivated to buy gold is pretty constant, and they don't care if its legal or not. Net effect to economy = none, ANet makes a bit of money.

2) Inflation. Could result from many forces - ANet undercuts the farming market, rendering gold farms un-profitable. People buy the cheap gold in droves (or alternatively, ANet doesn't undercut, but the option of legal gold prompts many more buyers willing to pay for the lack of risk). Effect in game - trade between players gets more and more pricy. In game prices however will not change, since merchants etc. are operating on fixed prices, hence anything that is simply created (ID kits, Salvage kits) are fixed in price. Hoarding of materials could result, since the material traders are programmed to operate within limits - the stocks of materials at traders would perpetually be low/empty, since they can command a larger price in player-to-player sales. Ironically, farming of materials might then pose a bigger problem, though storage space considerations enter the picture. Effect on high end items: horrible elevated prices, unaffordable by farming gold. Effect on the average player: Little effect, since one can easily farm materials needed in game, and material pricing will rise for all used materials. ANet makes money.

To be perfectly honest, I don't see any particular risks. The purchasing power a player has is still determined by what they can earn per hour farming - whether the gold has value or not, the materials do. If gold is devalued it will simply be an economy based on something else.

The value of an object in game is a product of only a few factors, and boils down to supply and demand:
Is it limited in number? (special prizes from ANet events etc., supply)
Do people know how to obtain it? (temporary value for newly discovered things, supply, a bit of demand)
How long does it take to farm (expected value of time spent, supply)
Need for the object (demand)

The value of any object in game (say ectos) will be determined this way. If ectos become easier to farm the value drops. If new uses for piles of ecto arrive (chaos gloves) the price rises. Same with gold.

Loviatar · Sep 05, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Let this thread just die or better be closed fast. Such horrible ideas shoudn't see the light of the day.

/NOT SIGNED mods close please

i love it.

some casual slob could simply spend a few dollars and have all the ingame gold needed to outbid you you rich little hard core elitest you

COMBAT OF THE CREDIT CARDS WITH BETTING ON THE SIDE FROM US LITTLE GUYS

I LOVE IT ALREADY

Keithark · Sep 05, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

No on buying plat...why do you want to pay even more RL money for a game you already paid for? See below for solution to the mess that is GW Economy.

Problem #1

Things people want cost so much that it takes months to farm the plat/ecto to buy

Solution to prob #1

Make more of high end items so they drop more and you can just get the item you want instead of having to farm months for the gold to buy it or resort to e-bay gold to buy it.

Who is hurt with solution?

Only powertraders whos only purpose is to try to get wealth in-game and since there is a cap on amount of gold you can have on account then this was not the intention of game anyway so no need to worry about them

Who is helped with this solution?

Everyone else

Problem # 2

Non drop items that are rare and cost big plat (minipets)

Solution to prob #2

Make all minipets available from a merchant or trader to everyone

Who is hurt with this solution?

only powertraders whos only purpose is to try to get wealth in-game and since there is a cap on amount of gold you can have on account then this was not the intention of game anyway so no need to worry about them

Who is helped with this solution?

Everyone else

Problem #3

Umm....well....guess solutions 1 and 2 pretty much fixed the problems

Epinephrine · Sep 05, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

True - as I said, you are trading in time with gold buying. Remove the need to spend countless hours to get things and you remove the gold sellers, since they can only really trade in time.

You'll never see gold selling in an MMOFPS. But I suspect people don't want a game in which skill determines your prestige. Most people aren't very skilled, but have a lot of time :P

Mohnzh · Sep 05, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Um, a lot of people would be hurt by this, not just the powertraders. I would wager that the majority of RPGers actually enjoy challenges and collecting and all the other aspects that come along with RPGs. To sell gold now makes everything not so difficult or rare or anything like that removing the whole reason people play. So, a lot of people quit. Good for the servers, right? ANet already made their money since there is no monthly fee. How many people will buy future ANet products knowing that they did the opposite of what they had always claimed they would stand by? None of those that quit the game for it. ANet would be hurt bigtime by selling gold. I really enjoy the game. I think it is well balanced (basically because I hear about as many complaints as it being too long and hard as I do about it being too short and easy). ANet is on the right path. Not everyone is pleased, and few (if any) are 100% pleased. But they are right where they need to be. Don't sell gold for no other reason than it ruins the game. Why would anyone be proud of their accomplishments knowing they could have gotten them by cheating? If you argue that at least that person knowss he didn't buy gold or cheat, then they would get more enjoyment out of a non-MMO game. Not what ANet wants.

Epinephrine · Sep 05, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohnzh

I would wager that the majority of RPGers actually enjoy challenges and collecting and all the other aspects that come along with RPGs. To sell gold now makes everything not so difficult or rare or anything like that removing the whole reason people play.

Ok, please explain. How does gold being available in a store make anything less rare?

It's not like you can buy items from the store. Players have to find the items. If the item is rare, it's still rare. The only change will be inflation.

When a player gets a great drop, it's still a great drop - it'll just sell for more, because of inflation.

Gold farmers get drops when they farm. Those drops go into the economy as well, creating a huge influx of gold items for example. These items reduce the cost of insignia, runes, inscriptions, skins and gold items in general. Gold from the store wouldn't bring any of that with it. If the store sold just gold it would likely drive up the prices of many things, since both the lack of those drops and the possible inflation would contribute. That still doesn't make it bad.

I think people fool themselves that gold buying isn't in game, or that the farmers don't affect *them*, since they don't buy gold. If you've bought runes, you've been affected by gold buying. If you've bought gold items to ID with in game gold, you've likely been supplying farmers with gold to sell.

MithranArkanere · Sep 05, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

This will not remove botters.
Will increase them. They will bring more bots to gaing more gold and sell it cheaper than the store.